Ray: OK! Sober at the moment. Red hot date tonight!!! Woohoo!!!
Éponge: I'm about to start a brewpub guide to Vermont and I would need some information. Do you have any idea why there are so many great brewers in Vermont?
Ray: Ummm, maybe because it's so much of a home-made, home-spun kinda place, and local people are so supportive of local products. Hard to say. Ask Greg. But it certainly is quite different from, say, New Hampshire or Connecticut. Especially the latter has a dearth of quality beers (none?).
Éponge: Is there a common denominator between you, Tim Wilson, John Kimmich, and Greg Noonan?
Ray: I've never met John, so... no. But I've known Greg for ages.
Éponge: Could it be that Vermonters are more sophisticated about beer, giving talented brewers like you a chance to express their talents?
Ray: Maybe not more sophisticated, though Greg and I and others have certainly led people down the rosy path. I think it's more that local people were pre-disposed to being supportive.
Éponge: In Quebec, a brewer can choose to sell his beers through the SAQ (liquor board outlet) or through private grocery stores...When I visited Vermont last winter, I had a list of all the "Vermont Liquor Outlets". When I passed through Montpelier, I went to "Yankee Spirits" then accidentally to the M & M and was surprise to find about 10 of your beers there. But this M & M wasn't on the "Vermont Liquor Outlet" list. So could you explain the difference between a "Vermont Liquor Outlet" and a convenience store like the M & M?
Ray: The state controls sales of spirits and takes a flat 25% profit. It used to manage and operate it's own stores, but that turned out to be less profitable, so now most (all?) liquor sales are put out to bid. When available, a qualified retailer bids to handle liquor sales and adds it to their product line... beer, wine, smokes, junk food, whatever. One can get a license ($50!!!) to sell beer and wine without the liquor, and few stores are interested in giving up the space... it's reportedly not very profitable. Those that do are generally interested in associated sales... while picking up the gin, you need tonic and ice, right? There are a limited number of these licenses available.
Éponge: A rumor that I hear a lot is that brewers in Vermont cannot brew beers that are higher than 8% in alcohol. Is this true?
Ray: That's the law, and a beer over 8% abv must have a terminal gravity over 1.007, thereby eliminating cheap strong beers.
Éponge: Does this apply only to bottle products or is it also true for keg and cask beers ?
Ray: All beer.
Éponge: Is that the reason why you are not bottling your barley wine?
Ray: Yes.
Éponge: Would it be legal to brew a 10% beer and sell it out of state?
Ray: Yes.
Éponge: Is it true that retail stores have to keep their 8%+ beers in the spirits section or is it only a storeowner decision to do that?
Ray: Anything over 8% is defined as liquor by the state and is thereby controlled by the state. Licensees holding spirits contracts must shelve all spirits together and separate from non-spirit products, so you see the odd strong beer in liquor stores on the shelf next to bourbon. I could bottle my barley wine but I'd have to sell it to the state, they'd take 25%, and it would be with all the liquor... not worth it, probably.
Éponge: On a personal note, did you finally bought the brewery that you wanted to, and will we see McNeill's six-packs very soon in retail stores?
Ray: Yes, I bought it, and will begin construction very soon.
Éponge: By the way, the big story in Quebec these days is that our jewel Unibroue (www.unibroue.com/products/bieres.cfm) brewers of Fin du Monde, Maudite, Trois-Pistoles, and Blanche de Chambly, has been bought by the ontarian Sleeman and we are all seriously pissed by that! Sleeman has a tendancy to buy breweries outside of Ontario just to enter the market, and then stop producing these beers to fill the market with theirs...
Ray: I read about this somewhere. And Sleeman has a reputation for shitty beers, too, at least the ones I've had were forgetable if not regretable. It would be a sin should Unibroue fold, though I regard them as competitors.
Hope all's well, Sponge. Let me know if you need anything else!
